[00:00:00] Bob Becker: In the old days, there were call centers.
[00:00:02] Ruben Harris: Yeah.
[00:00:03] Bob Becker: So a travel agent would call into a call center. Mm-hmm. The call center's goal was to get on and off the phone [00:00:10] as fast as they could. We spend $100 million in marketing to make the phone ring. And the phone rings at a travel agent. What happens after [00:00:20] that?
[00:00:20] Bob Becker: He goes, "I don't know." Why don't we find out what happens to it? If you b- make a reservation for a guest once, I don't care.
[00:00:29] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:00:29] Bob Becker: If you [00:00:30] build a relationship that lasts a li- lifetime, that marketing dollar that was spent once is gonna be divided by six or seven cruises. It does it [00:00:40] with zero marketing acquisition cost because the lead, the marketing money was already spent.
[00:00:46] Bob Becker: It was a sunken cost, and basically [00:00:50] what the direct team does, it goes into the lead dumpster-
[00:00:53] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm ...
[00:00:54] Bob Becker: and pulls out what they can. Mm-hmm. Now, if you add the virtual assistants, digital [00:01:00] agents helping them in the dumpster, you can go deeper into the dumpster.
[00:01:05] Ruben Harris: Happy Tuesday. My name's Ruben Harris, and this is The New Normal.[00:01:10]
[00:01:10] Ruben Harris: The New Normal is a show where we go inside of organizations that are actually using AI in production at scale in a way that's making a meaningful impact in their [00:01:20] organizations. This is not a show about hype. It's a show where we interview leaders who have made decisions to reimagine their organizations with AI at its core.
[00:01:29] Ruben Harris: [00:01:30] Today, we're in Miami, Florida, with our head of travel, Jeff Herzfeld, who's going to introduce our guest. Jeff, can you please introduce the guest?
[00:01:39] Jeff Herzfeld: Yes, I'm very [00:01:40] excited to introduce our next guest, Bob Becker. Bob is also known as the King of Outbound in the cruise industry. Bob, throughout his career, has been responsible [00:01:50] for more than $50 billion in sales and has produced over 25 VPs and SVPs in the industry, including myself.
[00:01:59] Jeff Herzfeld: So [00:02:00] very excited to be here. uh, Bob gave me my start in the, in the cruise industry and, uh, welcome to the show, Bob.
[00:02:05] Bob Becker: Thank you very much. Great to be here.
[00:02:06] Jeff Herzfeld: Glad to have you.
[00:02:07] Ruben Harris: So yeah, so you, you're known as, as the [00:02:10] King of Direct, King of Outbound. So how did people fill ships before humans were on the phone?
[00:02:16] Bob Becker: And that, that's a great question. Thank you for asking, Ruben. [00:02:20] So in the old days, the, uh, consumer would read a newspaper ad.
[00:02:25] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:02:25] Bob Becker: uh, last page in the travel section. They'd call a cruise line, [00:02:30] and usually they said, "Could I get a brochure?"
[00:02:32] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:02:33] Bob Becker: Because people didn't know about cruising. Mm-hmm. So they'd send out a very expensive brochure.
[00:02:37] Bob Becker: Some of them are close to 200 [00:02:40] pages long, very heavy to mail. They'd send it to the consumer, and they'd hope that the consumer would walk into a travel agency and say, "I'd like [00:02:50] to take this cruise as a vacation."
[00:02:52] Ruben Harris: Interesting.
[00:02:52] Bob Becker: But in my mind, hope is a pretty poor strategy in business.
[00:02:57] Ruben Harris: Exactly. And that's, that's exactly what I was thinking, like ho- [00:03:00] hope isn't a strategy, and then you, you came in there and you introduced a different idea, which was- People calling on the phones, and what was their [00:03:10] reaction when you brought that up?
[00:03:11] Bob Becker: So when I started calling the consumer direct, I literally had death threats. It was- Wow ... not good. [00:03:20] um, travel partners had thought that if they booked someone 30 years ago for their honeymoon and hadn't talked to them since, they still owned that guest.
[00:03:27] Ruben Harris: uh-huh.
[00:03:28] Bob Becker: So when we called them [00:03:30] directly, it was very uncomfortable.
[00:03:31] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm. And how did, how did you overcome that skepticism? Because obviously, I mean, maybe not obvious to people that are [00:03:40] listening, but we know that in the industry today, a lot of people are trying to create personalized experiences using people that are calling guests that are interested [00:03:50] or that have booked before.
[00:03:51] Ruben Harris: So how did you overcome people making death threats?
[00:03:54] Bob Becker: Well, what's great is, um, being the leader, being the pioneer, I had some great [00:04:00] mentors, Ed Rudner, Bob Dickinson- Mm-hmm ... Vicki Freed. And what they taught me is reach out to the travel agency community and offer to teach [00:04:10] them our sales process- Mm ... Dirt to Diamonds.
[00:04:12] Bob Becker: So I've been a keynote speaker at most of the conventions- Mm-hmm ... and then the travel agents see that, one, [00:04:20] we're there to help-
[00:04:21] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm ...
[00:04:21] Bob Becker: because a strong travel agency network is very critical.
[00:04:25] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:04:25] Bob Becker: Two, with the growth in cruising since 1995-
[00:04:29] Ruben Harris: [00:04:30] Mm-hmm ...
[00:04:30] Bob Becker: there is plenty for everyone to eat.
[00:04:32] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:04:33] Bob Becker: And with the growth coming in the next 10 years, there's too much to eat for everybody.
[00:04:38] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:04:39] Bob Becker: So the cruise [00:04:40] lines are gonna have to get their, uh, giddy-up going to fill their ships.
[00:04:44] Ruben Harris: Yeah. S-
[00:04:46] Jeff Herzfeld: Yeah, so what did people say to you when you proposed, you know, employees [00:04:50] calling guests?
[00:04:51] Bob Becker: Well, the, the funniest one was, uh, with Bob Dickinson of Carnival Cruise Lines. He's, he is a legend. And I met with him through [00:05:00] Vicki Freed, and he said, "What if this doesn't work?"
[00:05:03] Bob Becker: And I said, "I'm a salesperson. Give me 90 days. If it doesn't work, you can either fire me or I'll quit [00:05:10] out of embarrassment." And he said, "I've never had an interview where someone said, 'Fire me.'" And I said, "If I don't make my number, fire me." And the rest is history. [00:05:20]
[00:05:20] Ruben Harris: uh, I really like that point 'cause we're gonna be talking about performance in a second.
[00:05:25] Ruben Harris: Okay. um, but before doing that, I don't think people [00:05:30] realize how travel agencies worked back then.
[00:05:34] Bob Becker: Okay.
[00:05:34] Ruben Harris: The whole thing that you broke down with the brochures and how it evolved with the internet, can you [00:05:40] kind of visualize that for us?
[00:05:42] Bob Becker: Yes. So in the old days, every strip mall-
[00:05:45] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm ...
[00:05:45] Bob Becker: had a dry cleaner, a Blockbuster Video, some kind of [00:05:50] restaurant, and a travel agency.
[00:05:52] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:05:52] Bob Becker: In 1990 f- and 70% of their revenue was based on airline tickets, which in those days, [00:06:00] kids today won't understand what this is, it was a hard card ticket that actually had value. So if Ruben gave me his, I could actually get [00:06:10] on a plane with the ticket.
[00:06:11] Jeff Herzfeld: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:12] Bob Becker: But the way the airlines distributed the tickets was travel agents.
[00:06:16] Bob Becker: And a travel agent got 10% off the top of the ticket. [00:06:20] In 1995, all the airlines collectively said, "We're not gonna pay you for tickets anymore." So now the travel agencies lost [00:06:30] 70% of their revenue.
[00:06:31] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:31] Bob Becker: So at that time, only 1% of the American population had taken a cruise. Mm-hmm. It was not a widely popular [00:06:40] vacation.
[00:06:40] Bob Becker: Normally for the rich, white collar, doctors, lawyers.
[00:06:44] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:45] Bob Becker: And then the cruise lines came in heavily into the travel [00:06:50] agents, and then the internet accelerated the, um, education on cruising.
[00:06:56] Ruben Harris: Awesome. Awesome. And some- and something that I like about you is [00:07:00] you, you kind of, you're big on whiteboarding. Yes.
[00:07:02] Ruben Harris: So can you kinda like draw that out for us so we can see it?
[00:07:05] Bob Becker: So Ruben, it's funny you mention whiteboard. It, in my last, uh, [00:07:10] full-time employment before I went into consulting, I had a boardroom outside my office, and all four walls were painted white. So when someone wanted to learn something or I needed to [00:07:20] do some goal-setting with someone, I would draw on the whiteboard.
[00:07:23] Bob Becker: Because as you know, people learn three ways: audio-
[00:07:27] Ruben Harris: Yeah ...
[00:07:27] Bob Becker: visual, and [00:07:30] kinesthetic. And if I speak while I draw, I've captured 95% of the audience. So I have a quick diagram here. In 1995, there [00:07:40] were 43,000 full service travel agencies. Each had six to eight employees, and they would service airplane tickets, hotels, cruise [00:07:50] lines, rental cars.
[00:07:51] Bob Becker: In the old days when Hertz and Avis were household names, right? But over time, due to losing the airline ticket revenue, [00:08:00] the number of agencies went out of business. 9/11 was a big catalyst. Mm-hmm. 2008, very bad for travel agents. So now [00:08:10] there's less than 10,000 full service travel agents.
[00:08:13] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:08:14] Bob Becker: The challenge for the cruise industry is cruising has exploded- Mm-hmm ... and is [00:08:20] quickly becoming one of the top vacation choices.
[00:08:22] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:08:23] Bob Becker: So there are now a 5,000% increase in the number of heads [00:08:30] needed to fill the beds.
[00:08:31] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:08:31] Bob Becker: So look at it this way in any business.
[00:08:33] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:08:34] Bob Becker: You have a shrinking sales force and exploding inventory.
[00:08:38] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:08:39] Bob Becker: You have a big [00:08:40] hole.
[00:08:40] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:08:41] Bob Becker: Who's gonna fill the hole? Direct.
[00:08:45] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:08:47] Bob Becker: So that's why I became the father of [00:08:50] direct sales.
[00:08:50] Ruben Harris: Got it.
[00:08:51] Bob Becker: Every ship must go full.
[00:08:52] Ruben Harris: Yeah. So, so it's not just the inventory going up, but also the [00:09:00] people wanting to travel as their first choice going up.
[00:09:02] Bob Becker: Yes.
[00:09:02] Ruben Harris: And so you need more people to serve. Like, give us an example of how many leads a typical [00:09:10] cruise line is getting a year- Oh, the- and how many people you have to hire to call these people?
[00:09:14] Bob Becker: Well, the, the challenge to cruising versus a hotel vacation.
[00:09:19] Ruben Harris: Yeah.
[00:09:19] Bob Becker: A [00:09:20] cruise or a yachting vacation, now there's 100 passenger, 200 passenger, up to 500 passenger yachts.
[00:09:27] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:09:27] Bob Becker: That vacation must be [00:09:30] sold.
[00:09:30] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:09:31] Bob Becker: People don't buy it, it must be sold.
[00:09:34] Bob Becker: So you need a whole huge quantity of leads. Carnival, Royal, [00:09:40] NCL, Princess, the large- MSC, the larger cruise lines have literally millions of leads in their database- Mm-hmm ... that they address.
[00:09:48] Ruben Harris: Yep. And how many [00:09:50] people are in a typical call center that are trying to call those millions of people?
[00:09:54] Bob Becker: Okay, let me separate-
[00:09:55] Ruben Harris: Oh, oh yeah, no.
[00:09:56] Ruben Harris: Let's go. Not call center. Sales.
[00:09:57] Bob Becker: Sorry about that. No, you can se- you can separate that.
[00:09:59] Ruben Harris: Yeah.
[00:09:59] Bob Becker: In [00:10:00] the old days, there were call centers.
[00:10:02] Ruben Harris: Yeah.
[00:10:02] Bob Becker: So a travel agent would call into a call center.
[00:10:06] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:10:06] Bob Becker: The call center's goal was to get on and off the phone as [00:10:10] fast as they could.
[00:10:10] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:10:12] Bob Becker: Many, many, many people prior to myself-
[00:10:15] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm
[00:10:15] Bob Becker: tried to deal directly with the consumer and failed.
[00:10:19] Ruben Harris: [00:10:20] Mm-hmm.
[00:10:20] Bob Becker: um, the ... One of the biggest pioneers in cruising was a gentleman named Ed Rudner, who said, "Do not create a call center." [00:10:30]
[00:10:30] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:10:30] Bob Becker: "You're a sales guy." Mm-hmm. "Create a sales team." And what is selling? Selling is simply helping people buy what [00:10:40] they need.
[00:10:40] Ruben Harris: Yep.
[00:10:41] Bob Becker: Now, if you've never cruised and you have a family of three under the age of 10, what do you need? Two cabins.
[00:10:49] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm. [00:10:50]
[00:10:50] Bob Becker: Hopefully adjoining, so your kids are right next to you, you can keep an eye on them.
[00:10:54] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:10:54] Bob Becker: As your kids grow and become teenagers, you don't want them next to you. Mm-hmm. You want them across [00:11:00] the hall in an interior stateroom.
[00:11:02] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:11:02] Bob Becker: If you're, uh, physically challenged or you have some mobility problems, you want to be strategically located [00:11:10] at the part of the ship where you're gonna enjoy your most time.
[00:11:12] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:11:13] Bob Becker: My wife likes spa treatments. Mm-hmm. She'd like to be near the spa, okay? Mm-hmm. I like an, a [00:11:20] sports pub, so I like to be closer to the sports pub.
[00:11:23] Bob Becker: Some people like the casino, the water slides. So help the people pick [00:11:30] the best stateroom, the best amenities that are gonna add value to their vacation.
[00:11:36] Ruben Harris: Got it. So it's not just about inventory or [00:11:40] people calling. It's essentially matching the right type of not just trip to the right person or family, it's the right experience or that, that you have [00:11:50] available.
[00:11:50] Bob Becker: Yes, exactly. So many cruise lines have a niche.
[00:11:54] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:11:54] Bob Becker: And what used to bother me when I was on the road every week, I'd be flying into Fort Lauderdale or [00:12:00] Miami, and I'd see a nice honeymoon couple, and I'd say, "Oh." You can always tell. I'd say, "Oh, are you going on a cruise?" "Yes." "Which cruise line?" [00:12:10] Oh, no.
[00:12:11] Bob Becker: They're going on a cruise line where the average age is gonna be 70 plus.
[00:12:15] Ruben Harris: Mm.
[00:12:15] Bob Becker: Or you see a 70-plus couple holding hands, you know they're going on a [00:12:20] cruise. Mm-hmm. And they're going on a cruise line that's more family-oriented.
[00:12:23] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[00:12:24] Bob Becker: So you need to pick the right product for the right family.
[00:12:28] Ruben Harris: Makes sense. [00:12:30] And Jeff was telling me a story earlier about how you introduced your framework into Carnival, I believe it was. Yes. um, Dick- So tell [00:12:40] us a little bit about that and, and you talked about sunken marketing costs or something like that.
[00:12:45] Bob Becker: Okay. So, um, to get an audience with Bob Dickinson, who I [00:12:50] always admired, as many people in, in the world admire Bob, I had to...
[00:12:55] Bob Becker: I knew I had a very short time.
[00:12:57] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:12:58] Bob Becker: So I got in front of him. [00:13:00] I had 10 minutes. He said, "You have 10 minutes." And I said, "Okay, your marketing team stinks." And he said, "What?" So now I had [00:13:10] his attention. And I said, "Well, Bob," and I literally drew it out. I said, "You spend $100 million in marketing to make the phone ring."
[00:13:18] Bob Becker: "And the phone [00:13:20] rings at a travel agent. What happens after that?" He goes, "I don't know." I said, "What do you mean you don't know?" He goes, "Well, the travel agent [00:13:30] could call us. They could call one of our competitors. They could call Disney World in Orlando." Disney had then, that time, did not have a cruise line, [00:13:40] but Disney World, universal Studios competes with the cruise vacation dollar, as does a ski vacation.
[00:13:46] Bob Becker: I said, "So you spend all this money, and you don't [00:13:50] know what happens to it?"
[00:13:50] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:13:51] Bob Becker: So I said, "Why don't we find out what happens to it? Let's have people go to a travel agent," 'cause travel partners do a fantastic [00:14:00] job, and cruising would never be what it is today without a strong agency group. I said, "But let's take some of those calls ourselves, and when they call in for a [00:14:10] brochure, let's grab their phone number.
[00:14:12] Bob Becker: Call 'em back the next day. 'Thank you for requesting a brochure. Which one of our itineraries interests you the [00:14:20] most?'" Open-ended questions. Get 'em talking. Mm-hmm. Get 'em talking. And we made a lot of mistakes along the way. We started out with, "Did you have a chance to look at the brochure?" [00:14:30] Mm-hmm. Well, that's closed-ended.
[00:14:31] Bob Becker: They could say yes, or they could say no. If they say no, the phone call's over.
[00:14:36] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:14:36] Bob Becker: So we changed it to, "Which itinerary interests you the most?" [00:14:40]
[00:14:40] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:14:40] Bob Becker: And they say, "Well, I'm confused between the Eastern and Western Caribbean." Mm-hmm. "So is everybody." Mm-hmm. Because the Eastern and Western Caribbean were named by the cruise [00:14:50] lines.
[00:14:50] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:14:50] Bob Becker: Not by the people in Eastern and Western Caribbean.
[00:14:52] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:14:53] Bob Becker: But that's a great question.
[00:14:54] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:14:54] Bob Becker: Are you looking forward to more adventure or world-class beaches? Mm-hmm. "Oh, [00:15:00] world-class beaches." Eastern Caribbean.
[00:15:02] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:15:02] Bob Becker: And we go from there. Mm-hmm. So over time, we realized there's 10 questions I need to ask you and your [00:15:10] family to put you on the perfect vacation.
[00:15:12] Ruben Harris: Yeah.
[00:15:12] Jeff Herzfeld: So now the industry is doing outbound. Yes. So why, why is it hard?
[00:15:19] Bob Becker: [00:15:20] It's, okay, a few reasons. One, the, um, sales teams, both the travel partners and the [00:15:30] outbound teams, cannot keep up with the inventory coming on board.
[00:15:34] Jeff Herzfeld: Yep.
[00:15:35] Bob Becker: Now, there is a finite group of cruisers, let's say in the [00:15:40] North America. And North America cruising drives, drives the world.
[00:15:44] Bob Becker: It really does. It's, let's say there's 35 to 40 million. Royal, [00:15:50] Carnival, MSC, NCL, the big guys, Princess, they probably have most of the leads in their system. Do you know how many people you would need to call all [00:16:00] of those leads with every new product offering you have, every new restaurant you open, every new promotion you have?
[00:16:07] Bob Becker: It's, it's physically impossible to do.
[00:16:09] Ruben Harris: [00:16:10] Mm-hmm. So that's, that's a, that's a big issue. And so let's pretend that you did. Let's pretend that you did have unlimited humans that could call all these [00:16:20] leads. How would you manage their performance? 'Cause you talked about your number- Okay ... and when, when you talked to, uh, Dickinson.
[00:16:27] Ruben Harris: So, like, talk about that.
[00:16:29] Bob Becker: Well, first of all, [00:16:30] if I could call all the leads that the major cruise lines had, I'd be a billionaire like Mickey Arison. Okay? But you can't. Mm-hmm. So, um, what cruise lines [00:16:40] do now, they try to score the lead. They buy, they buy attribution, things like what credit card do they have?
[00:16:46] Bob Becker: What zip code do they live in? Mm-hmm. You know, if you're a luxury cruise line, [00:16:50] you want Saddle River, New Jersey, um, South Beach in Florida, you know, the, the Las Olas neighborhood in Fort Lauderdale. um, so they try to [00:17:00] score the leads. The biggest problem, though, is until you qualify a person, you cannot really determine propensity to cruise- Mm-hmm ... unless they've [00:17:10] done it before. Mm-hmm. My best friend Mark and I grew up inner city Buffalo.
[00:17:14] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:17:14] Bob Becker: Same type of grammar school, Catholic in Buffalo.
[00:17:17] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:17:17] Bob Becker: Same college. We both have [00:17:20] four kids. Two of his played travel soccer in college. Three of mine played travel soccer in college. You s- we are scored identical. [00:17:30] My wife and I will cruise 52 weeks a year.
[00:17:33] Bob Becker: Mark hates cruising.
[00:17:34] Ruben Harris: Yeah.
[00:17:35] Bob Becker: Yet we're sold the same.
[00:17:36] Ruben Harris: Interesting.
[00:17:37] Bob Becker: Someone needs to talk to Mark and his beautiful wife [00:17:40] Kelly and say, "What do you like to do on vacation?" Mm-hmm. They like Airbnbs near a train station.
[00:17:47] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:17:47] Bob Becker: My wife and I love cruising. [00:17:50] We've been on the entry-level cruise line to the most luxurious, and we've never had a bad cruise.
[00:17:55] Ruben Harris: Yeah, so lead scoring is not enough.
[00:17:58] Bob Becker: Not enough. You need [00:18:00] to talk to the people.
[00:18:01] Ruben Harris: Got it. So you touched on a lot of things, and then you brought in a framework into the industry that you call Dirt to Diamonds. Can you- [00:18:10] Yes ... can you break that down for us?
[00:18:11] Bob Becker: So, so what happened is I couldn't determine, when I started this, I got up to 50 people.
[00:18:19] Bob Becker: And we had [00:18:20] s- we knew we had something. It was special. And I couldn't determine why 10 were doing a million a month, [00:18:30] 30 were doing 500,000 a month. Mm-hmm. And 10 were doing 200,000 a month. Mm-hmm. Because they all had the same leads. Mm-hmm. They all had the same cubicle. Mm-hmm. They all had the same phone.
[00:18:39] Bob Becker: [00:18:40] They all had the same training. Mm-hmm. So one of the, um, ladies that worked for me, she was really smart. She went into something called the phone switch.
[00:18:49] Ruben Harris: [00:18:50] Mm.
[00:18:50] Bob Becker: I didn't know what a phone switch was.
[00:18:52] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:18:52] Bob Becker: So call centers, big sales teams, large organizations have this thing called a phone switch. Mm-hmm. And she dug into it and she said, [00:19:00] "Your top 10 do 150 dials a day, mixture of inbound and outbound."
[00:19:06] Bob Becker: I said, "Well, how do you know that?"
[00:19:07] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:19:08] Bob Becker: She goes, "Well, I can [00:19:10] pull their extension." Mm-hmm. And she said, "Your middle do 120 dials a day."
[00:19:15] Jeff Herzfeld: Mm-hmm.
[00:19:16] Bob Becker: "And your bottom do about 70 dials a day." Mm-hmm. [00:19:20] So they all have the same training.
[00:19:22] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:19:22] Bob Becker: Now, some of them are driven more.
[00:19:25] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:19:26] Bob Becker: um, but they're producing more.
[00:19:28] Bob Becker: So if we could get the [00:19:30] bottom and the middle up to 150 dials-
[00:19:33] Ruben Harris: Yep ...
[00:19:33] Bob Becker: we have a level playing field.
[00:19:34] Ruben Harris: Yeah.
[00:19:35] Bob Becker: Then we work on where in the dials they need help.
[00:19:39] Ruben Harris: [00:19:40] Yep. Yep.
[00:19:40] Bob Becker: Okay?
[00:19:41] Ruben Harris: So I really like what you brought up with activity and 150 dials, 'cause you had to get everybody on that same level of production.
[00:19:48] Ruben Harris: um, but it, it goes a little [00:19:50] bit deeper than that. Can you whiteboard that out for us?
[00:19:51] Bob Becker: Sure, it does. um, one of the things when we hire people, we tell them in the interview process, "If you have chubby fingers, we're gonna take care of that for you." [00:20:00] Because you're gonna do 150 dials a day every day. Now, once you become more experienced, you get more inbound because you've built a book of business.
[00:20:09] Bob Becker: [00:20:10] Mm-hmm. But the first four months, your own mother will not return your call. It's just the way it is. So the biggest problem with that is our first four months, we have very high [00:20:20] attrition.
[00:20:20] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:20:20] Bob Becker: So we train these p- we hire these people, we train these people, yet four months with nobody taking your call is very- Brutal.
[00:20:29] Bob Becker: Yeah ... it's [00:20:30] discouraging to say the least. So you're gonna do 150 dials a day and you're gonna get 80 no contacts, so you're gonna get machines. The problem is, after [00:20:40] 50 machines in a row, which is normally after the lunchtime, you still have to sound energetic- Mm-hmm ... to the 50th machine in a row. So your goal is to get 70 [00:20:50] people a day.
[00:20:51] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:20:51] Bob Becker: All right? 40 of them are not interested. It's not that they're not interested in cruising or you or what you have to say, [00:21:00] they're busy.
[00:21:00] Ruben Harris: Yeah.
[00:21:00] Bob Becker: You know, my, my wife really, uh, raised our, our four kids 'cause I was on the road. You could get her before 6:30 in the morning or after [00:21:10] 8:30 at night, in between you could be offering free Ferraris-
[00:21:14] Bob Becker: and she could not speak to you at all. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay? But she loves to cruise. [00:21:20] Yeah. So your goal is to whittle down the 150 to 30 opportunities. In the hands of a good salesperson with great product knowledge [00:21:30] and a good skill set, this is nice. So they're gonna get future potential.
[00:21:35] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:21:35] Bob Becker: Normally with a cruise or any complex product, the [00:21:40] purchase is no one-call close.
[00:21:41] Bob Becker: So, you know, we're deciding between Hawaii or Alaska. Mm. Two very different vacations, but the same type of [00:21:50] people do enjoy both, all right? So they're a good lead, but you're not gonna get a credit card today. A meaningful conversation knows [00:22:00] more. They've researched more, maybe they've cruised before, they've talked to their friends, so that's nice.
[00:22:08] Bob Becker: If you don't close them this [00:22:10] week, you're probably gonna lose them. And then there's the hot call. The hot call knows they need a suite with a private balcony near [00:22:20] the hot tub, and they wanna go on their anniversary August 10th. Get their credit card today or you lose them forever. Mm-hmm. All right? Now, [00:22:30] this is my trademark, my personal trademark.
[00:22:32] Bob Becker: Carnival was kind enough to let me trademark it to myself. It's called Dirt to Diamonds. Mm-hmm. To get [00:22:40] the diamonds, you have to move a lot of dirt. Mm-hmm. So what happens is we figured out that about 80% of the salesperson's [00:22:50] time is moving dirt, and 20% of their time is actually selling to a prospect, a past guest, a [00:23:00] future cruiser.
[00:23:00] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:23:01] Bob Becker: What if we could decrease this 80% significantly?
[00:23:07] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:23:08] Bob Becker: And that's why I'm excited to [00:23:10] meet with you guys here today because being a pioneer of this, which is now done at every cruise line in the world, I see the next step. And the [00:23:20] next step is helping virtual assistants, digital agents move the dirt to give top producing [00:23:30] salespeople more opportunities.
[00:23:33] Bob Becker: So my advice to, to the cruise lines out there is you may not n- need [00:23:40] more people as you buy more ships.
[00:23:42] Jeff Herzfeld: Mm-hmm.
[00:23:42] Bob Becker: You need to give your top people more opportunities to make more vacationers happy.
[00:23:49] Jeff Herzfeld: So that's very [00:23:50] interesting, Bob, you know, because going back 20 years, this is the same exact thing you've, you've taught me, and it hasn't changed.
[00:23:57] Jeff Herzfeld: No. However, it seems like there's an opportunity for sales [00:24:00] to evolve a bit, uh, more because you're talking about the 80%, which is a lot of the, the following up. So it seems like you can essentially free up a lot more time for them to sell.
[00:24:09] Bob Becker: Exa- [00:24:10] exactly. And when ... And, and I don't wanna go into names here, but some of the, um, travel partners I've met over the years, some of the direct salespeople I've [00:24:20] met over the years, if they get a fish on the line-
[00:24:23] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm
[00:24:24] Bob Becker: they're gonna close them.
[00:24:25] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:24:25] Bob Becker: They are good, and they care about their guests because I, I would say to [00:24:30] people, "If you b- make a reservation for a guest once, I don't care."
[00:24:35] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:24:36] Bob Becker: If you build a relationship that lasts a life- lifetime, that [00:24:40] marketing dollar that was spent once is gonna be divided by six or seven cruises.
[00:24:45] Bob Becker: So what really happens here is not only does the outbound direct [00:24:50] team help the travel partners fill the ships It does it with zero marketing acquisition cost because the lead, the marketing money was already [00:25:00] spent. Mm-hmm. It was a sunken cost. Mm-hmm. And basically what the direct team does, it goes into the lead dumpster-
[00:25:07] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm
[00:25:07] Bob Becker: and pulls out what they can. [00:25:10]
[00:25:10] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:25:10] Bob Becker: Now, if you add the virtual assistants, digital agents helping them in the dumpster, you can go deeper into the dumpster.
[00:25:19] Ruben Harris: Yep. Yep. [00:25:20] No, it makes a lot of sense. Okay. uh, I like that you brought up the relationship with marketing, 'cause what started off as maybe 100 million a year in marketing, now that Cruise Line spends billions on marketing-
[00:25:29] Bob Becker: [00:25:30] Yes
[00:25:30] Ruben Harris: to, and to your point, the sunken marketing cost, which is leads that you already paid for that nobody's really calling, can be [00:25:40] called by these digital workers regardless of what their score is that you talked about to- True ... elevate that to the right performers so that they can have meaningful conversations.
[00:25:49] Ruben Harris: Is that [00:25:50] what you mean when you talk about dirt to diamonds?
[00:25:51] Bob Becker: Yes. Here's the thing. People buy when it's the right time to buy.
[00:25:57] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:25:57] Bob Becker: And what happens is, my, my [00:26:00] favorite business book, if I can me- and mention it- Yeah, yeah.
[00:26:02] Ruben Harris: Mention it, yeah ...
[00:26:02] Bob Becker: everyone that I've mentored has had to read this book- Mm ... is Selling the Invisible by Beckwith.
[00:26:09] Ruben Harris: I never read [00:26:10] that one.
[00:26:10] Bob Becker: That's a good one. It's fantastic, and it's still... I read it 25 years ago. I read it every 90 days. I can read it in 20 minutes because I read my highlights.
[00:26:18] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:19] Bob Becker: The parts that are [00:26:20] important to me. In the book, he claims recency and frequency are your key. Mm. So you're going to buy off whoever [00:26:30] touched you most recent.
[00:26:31] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:32] Bob Becker: So how does each cruise line become the most recent?
[00:26:36] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:36] Bob Becker: They become the most frequent.
[00:26:38] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:38] Bob Becker: So look at it [00:26:40] this way. If you're dating someone-
[00:26:41] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm ...
[00:26:42] Bob Becker: and you haven't talked to them in 60 days, how do you think you're doing? Not too good. Exactly.
[00:26:48] Ruben Harris: Exactly.
[00:26:49] Bob Becker: So [00:26:50] with all the noise, with email now, with television commercials now, with, uh, social media, Facebook, and Google, there's so much noise.
[00:26:59] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:59] Bob Becker: [00:27:00] Let's take away the noise and get to the each person in the database consistently.
[00:27:06] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:27:07] Bob Becker: And when it's the right time for them [00:27:10] to consider the purchase, the virtual or digital agent will just do a very polite handoff-
[00:27:16] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm ...
[00:27:16] Bob Becker: to someone that can customize and [00:27:20] personalize their needs.
[00:27:21] Ruben Harris: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense.
[00:27:22] Ruben Harris: I think to your point, uh, you've brought this up to me, like sales is a contact sport, right? Yes. And so when you're in a, in [00:27:30] a, in a noisy world, making sure that they know that you care, that you're paying attention to them, whether they're ready to purchase now or later, is very important.
[00:27:38] Bob Becker: Yes.
[00:27:39] Ruben Harris: Can you talk [00:27:40] about CYA, wave season, and stuff like that?
[00:27:45] Bob Becker: Sure. So CYA is a mantra that most, the [00:27:50] majority of cruise lines use. If CYA is good- Life is good. Mm. C is capacity.
[00:27:57] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:27:57] Bob Becker: Fill the ships. uh, the one brief [00:28:00] conversation I had with Mickey Arison, who has built a tremendous cruise empire and really changed the way Americans vacation, followed by the Royal Caribbean family and many [00:28:10] others, as I said to him, uh, "Mr. Arison, what's the secret to this business?" And he said, "Every ship must go full." And I said, "Well, what's the second [00:28:20] secret?" And he said, "If you don't fill it, your replacement will." I said, "Mr. Arison, I can live with that."
[00:28:25] Jeff Herzfeld: Mm-hmm.
[00:28:25] Bob Becker: And that was great.
[00:28:26] Jeff Herzfeld: Mm-hmm.
[00:28:27] Bob Becker: A full ship, there's [00:28:30] opportunities for revenue on board.
[00:28:31] Bob Becker: A full ship has an energy and electricity that you can't understand unless you take a cruise.
[00:28:38] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:28:38] Bob Becker: The Y is [00:28:40] yield. Mm-hmm. Yield, it's a fancy term in the industry, but basically how much money will the consumer give you to book the ticket-
[00:28:48] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm ...
[00:28:49] Bob Becker: to go to the [00:28:50] casino, to go to the spa, to buy a beverage package, to book shore excursions, to book a pre and post?
[00:28:56] Bob Becker: So capacity, arrow up. [00:29:00] Yield, arrow up. Now, the third, the A, is marketing acquisition cost. Mm-hmm. That's the arrow we want to go down. Mm-hmm. So [00:29:10] if a cruise line did not grow in number of ships, yet they have a robust outbound direct team, their marketing acquisition [00:29:20] cost should decrease over time. Th- because they're utilizing the leads better, and they're dramatically improving repeat [00:29:30] guest to the brand.
[00:29:31] Jeff Herzfeld: So let's, let's talk about that because- Yeah ... you know, a lot of this has to do when you're building these outbound teams is performance management, right?
[00:29:37] Bob Becker: Yes.
[00:29:38] Jeff Herzfeld: What, what separates a [00:29:40] good outbound sales agent, or I guess as you say, the hunters versus the gatherers?
[00:29:45] Bob Becker: 100%. So there's two kinds of hunters. The [00:29:50] one that in the interview you know is a hunter.
[00:29:53] Bob Becker: Now, the good news is about that you don't have to motivate them. The bad news about that, it might be [00:30:00] a, uh, Dennis Rodman or Terrell Owens. You might have to put the reins on them a little bit.
[00:30:04] Ruben Harris: Yep.
[00:30:05] Bob Becker: And then there's the hunters you build. Mm-hmm. Well, how do you build a hunter?
[00:30:09] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:30:09] Bob Becker: You have [00:30:10] to find someone that has a real goal.
[00:30:13] Bob Becker: A real goal. um, "I lay awake at night worried about my debt." "Well, how much debt do you [00:30:20] have?" "Well, $6,000." "Okay. Let's do 60 bookings extra, 10 a month for six months, and I'll take care of your [00:30:30] debt."
[00:30:30] Ruben Harris: There you go.
[00:30:30] Bob Becker: "Oh, okay."
[00:30:32] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:30:32] Bob Becker: Then they take care of their debt. And, and I remember this young Latin girl came into me one time, and her debt kept her up at night.[00:30:40]
[00:30:40] Bob Becker: And when she finished her debt, which took her four or five months- Mm ... she came in and she baked me a rum cake. Right. Now I'm a... Everyone that knows me knows [00:30:50] I'm a Budweiser man. Mm-hmm. And I don't really drink a lot of liquor. Well, the rum cake was quite delicious- ... and, uh, I couldn't drive home that day.
[00:30:59] Bob Becker: [00:31:00] But she achieved her goal. And then the next goal was to buy a car. Mm. uh, we live here in South Florida. Due to the heat, the salt, you need, you [00:31:10] need a good car here. Mm-hmm. So what is, what does a car cost? And I remember little Nick, little Nick was from middle of nowhere New York, below Syracuse. [00:31:20] He wanted the H2 Hummer when it came out.
[00:31:22] Jeff Herzfeld: Mm-hmm.
[00:31:23] Bob Becker: I said, "Nick, that's a stupid car." He goes, "Bob," he goes, "When I drive into my town at Christmas, [00:31:30] I'm gonna be the only H2 Hummer." And I said, "Nick, they're expensive." He goes, "Bob, it's eight bookings a month."
[00:31:37] Ruben Harris: There you go. Yeah.
[00:31:38] Bob Becker: Okay. So he was [00:31:40] gonna come out on Saturdays.
[00:31:41] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:31:42] Bob Becker: Monday through Friday, you work to live.
[00:31:44] Bob Becker: Saturday and Sunday, you work for the H2 Hummer, the pool table- Mm-hmm ... the [00:31:50] upgrade to business class when you fly to Europe for your- Mm-hmm ... uh, Rome to Barcelona cruise. Mm-hmm. So if they have a goal-
[00:31:56] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm ...
[00:31:57] Bob Becker: you don't have to worry about them.
[00:31:58] Jeff Herzfeld: So let's [00:32:00] pack that, unpack that a little bit. Goals, quotas, you know, tell me a little bit about what is a, what is an outbound agent's goal typically in the industry? What is-
[00:32:07] Bob Becker: Well, here's what was, I think, [00:32:10] a big key to the success. When the outbound salesperson's goals align with the company's goals, when those [00:32:20] two meet, profit is undeniable. Mm-hmm. It's coming. So what you need is people who are goal-oriented.
[00:32:26] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:32:27] Bob Becker: Or you teach them to become goal-oriented. [00:32:30] If they're not, that's fine.
[00:32:31] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:32:32] Bob Becker: Good people that show up can become gatherers.
[00:32:35] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:32:36] Bob Becker: Every company needs gatherers, people that come in, they work their [00:32:40] 40 hours a week. They'll do a little extra if you need them. The hunters, and what we used to have at Carnival and Norwegian, was 110-day challenge.
[00:32:49] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:32:49] Bob Becker: [00:32:50] So the beginning of January, usually Martin Luther King Day-
[00:32:54] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm
[00:32:55] Bob Becker: 'cause it's the 15th, it's usually a Monday, it's a national holiday, [00:33:00] you pray for cold. Mm-hmm. You want it cold in the Northeast, cold in the Midwest. You want everybody to be miserable, so when you call them, they're, "Get me [00:33:10] somewhere warm." Mm-hmm. They don't care if it's St. Thomas, Cozumel, Grand Cayman. "Get me somewhere warm."
[00:33:16] Bob Becker: They're all home, and they're all miserable. Now, though, you [00:33:20] have to... If you pray for snow, you have to selectively pray.
[00:33:22] Jeff Herzfeld: Mm-hmm.
[00:33:23] Bob Becker: 'Cause Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays, we need the airports open. So Monday through Friday at noon, I want you miserable, [00:33:30] but you gotta get those airports open, all right? Now, what outbound did, and I have to give credit to a gentleman still in the industry named Tom Burke.[00:33:40]
[00:33:40] Bob Becker: Tom moved from Fort Lauderdale up to Port St. Lucie, where Carnival opened up another office. 100- we had 120 people up there. We were closed on New Year's Day. [00:33:50]
[00:33:50] Jeff Herzfeld: Mm-hmm.
[00:33:50] Bob Becker: So I get in January 2nd, my goal is 6:30 in with my McDonald's Coke for my reports. Of course, the reports on January [00:34:00] 2nd will be 0.0000.
[00:34:02] Bob Becker: And I look, and of all the great travel partners and of all the salespeople, I had Tom Burke, 17 [00:34:10] bookings, which is huge.
[00:34:11] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:34:11] Bob Becker: Nobody else in the world, any.
[00:34:13] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:34:14] Bob Becker: So obviously, this is a glitch. So I called Tom up in Port St. Lucie and he said, "Bob, [00:34:20] I'm up in Port St. Lucie working from home. The phone switch isn't in yet.
[00:34:24] Bob Becker: I got a wife and a brand-new baby and no friends. I hit the phones." [00:34:30] Think about this. For Thanksgiving, you're visiting grandma. For Christmas, you're visiting someone. Where is everybody in the united States [00:34:40] on January 1st? Home, watching mediocre college football games that don't really matter. Tom made 25 dials and got [00:34:50] 17 bookings.
[00:34:50] Ruben Harris: Wow.
[00:34:51] Bob Becker: So what happened is Carnival, followed by Norwegian and anywhere else I've been, moved wave from [00:35:00] January 15th two weeks forward.
[00:35:02] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:35:03] Bob Becker: So by January 15th, the direct teams are already slaying their month.
[00:35:07] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:35:07] Bob Becker: That's when the normal [00:35:10] demand kicks in up until St. Patrick's Day-
[00:35:13] Ruben Harris: Yeah ...
[00:35:13] Bob Becker: which is mid-March.
[00:35:14] Jeff Herzfeld: Awesome. So Bob, let's talk about that, because there's a lot of people that may not know what wave season is. Yeah. What is wave [00:35:20] season, and what should cruise lines be doing now to prepare?
[00:35:23] Bob Becker: Well, there's two things. There's the traditional wave season. Mm-hmm. We need to be staffed as much as you can be [00:35:30] staffed, because there's times you just can't handle the volume.
[00:35:33] Bob Becker: It's that good. And the reason is really the weather. Mm-hmm. But the kids are back at [00:35:40] school. So the beginning of December, all the kids are finishing up school, doing exams. It's really a good time for outbound people to take vacation. The first two weeks of [00:35:50] December, people are busy, but after January, they get their holiday decorations, if they celebrate holidays, down.
[00:35:57] Bob Becker: Kids are back in school. They're ready to [00:36:00] book the summer vacation- Mm-hmm ... or next winter spring break. So it's good. It's good fishing. Now, though, here's what the outbound teams [00:36:10] do well. Hunters eat all the time. Mm-hmm. Get- all gatherers eat in wave, but a hunter's gotta eat year-round. So [00:36:20] at the end of March, June, July, August, they turn it up.
[00:36:24] Jeff Herzfeld: Mm-hmm.
[00:36:25] Bob Becker: So let me give you an example. There's so many great cruise lines today, so [00:36:30] many great ships, but with that comes competition to fill the ships.
[00:36:34] Jeff Herzfeld: Yeah.
[00:36:34] Bob Becker: So they come up with promotions. So the direct teams know about the [00:36:40] promotions. So the, the promotion with the most staying power is kids free.
[00:36:45] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:36:46] Bob Becker: You can't handle the phones.
[00:36:47] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:36:47] Bob Becker: But how many people don't [00:36:50] know about kids free?
[00:36:51] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:36:51] Bob Becker: How do you notify 20 million names in a database? How do you touch them to let them know, "Hey, Jeff, the [00:37:00] last time you cruised, you brought two kids. We have kids free coming up." How do you let them know? You can't.
[00:37:06] Ruben Harris: E- email blasts don't work.
[00:37:08] Ruben Harris: Email- Text blasts- So- Or like... Or do you [00:37:10] do that? Or te- tell us about email blasts and text blasts to notify- E- ... 20 million names.
[00:37:14] Bob Becker: Email became big-
[00:37:15] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm ...
[00:37:16] Bob Becker: in 2003-
[00:37:18] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm ...
[00:37:18] Bob Becker: in the cruise industry. Mm-hmm. [00:37:20] And my wife's idea, I have to give her 100% credit-
[00:37:23] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm ...
[00:37:23] Bob Becker: was, uh, the first annual ever one-day sale in cruising.
[00:37:27] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:37:27] Bob Becker: And, um, we lived [00:37:30] on a budget. Mm-hmm. On a budget. And my wife's a CPA by trade. Mm-hmm. She handled the budget. And I stopped at Macy's one-day sale.
[00:37:37] Jeff Herzfeld: Mm-hmm.
[00:37:38] Bob Becker: And I spent 1,000 bucks. Mm-hmm. [00:37:40] And we did not have 1,000 bucks. Mm-hmm. She... I was floating some credit cards here. Mm-hmm. And I came home and she goes, "You spent a lot of money."
[00:37:46] Bob Becker: I said, "No, no, no." "I saved a [00:37:50] lot of money." Saved a lot of money. And she said, "Okay." She pulls out a beautiful blue Donna Karan suit, and she said, "What did this cost?" And I looked at the receipt and I said, "399." She goes, [00:38:00] "Okay. What did it cost yesterday?" I said, "I don't know." "What did it cost tomorrow?" I said, "I don't know."
[00:38:05] Bob Becker: She goes, "So you don't know if you had a sale?" I said, "Yes, I get a sale. It's a Macy's one-day sale." [00:38:10]
[00:38:10] Jeff Herzfeld: Mm-hmm.
[00:38:10] Bob Becker: So I went to the head of revenue at Carnival, uh, a good friend of mine to this day, and I said, "I've got an idea. I'd like to run a one-day sale." [00:38:20] She goes, "What do you need from me?" And I said, "Nothing."
[00:38:23] Bob Becker: She goes, "It's a stupid idea." So I said, "Okay. Think about it till noon, and if you don't agree, I'm gonna call [00:38:30] Big Bob, Bob Dickinson." So she said it's a stupid idea at noon. So I called Bob, told him the Macy's story. He goes, "I love it." He went down to see Brenda, who's [00:38:40] wicked smart. V- one of the smartest people in the industry today.
[00:38:44] Bob Becker: And, um, he said, "We're gonna do it." The next day, we sent an email out.
[00:38:49] Ruben Harris: [00:38:50] Mm-hmm.
[00:38:50] Bob Becker: um, one day only. Price is too good to put in print. We tripled our best day ever.
[00:38:57] Ruben Harris: Wow.
[00:38:58] Bob Becker: So the one-day sale became the [00:39:00] thing, and y- every once in a while, we'd give a two-category upgrade, which is not really, uh, a big difference. It's the same stateroom two levels up.
[00:39:09] Ruben Harris: Yeah.
[00:39:09] Bob Becker: [00:39:10] But that became a thing. So now you see cruise lines run air promotions. Mm-hmm. upgrade from an ocean view to a balcony. That is sexy. Mm-hmm. If you [00:39:20] can pay an ocean view price and get a, your own private balcony-
[00:39:23] Ruben Harris: Yeah ...
[00:39:24] Bob Becker: how do you let the database know?
[00:39:26] Ruben Harris: Yeah.
[00:39:26] Bob Becker: You can't.
[00:39:27] Ruben Harris: Yeah.
[00:39:27] Bob Becker: So the veterans, which are usually [00:39:30] your top people, some of these people have been doing this for 20 years now. They have such a database, they can't get to anybody but their loyal [00:39:40] past guests.
[00:39:40] Bob Becker: So they're gonna get to three, 400 people. Yep. And the value, the value of email went from gold to, to be honest with you, [00:39:50] I don't even open my emails today.
[00:39:51] Ruben Harris: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it has like a 1% open rate.
[00:39:53] Bob Becker: I just don't even open them. Yeah. I don't even open them. um, I do, um, take phone calls that are not spam or [00:40:00] scam.
[00:40:00] Ruben Harris: Yeah.
[00:40:01] Bob Becker: You know, if it comes in from, um, a cruise line. I'm currently working with a luxury cruise line. Mm-hmm. uh, we're gonna do a, uh, Christmas market cruise- [00:40:10] Makes sense ... over in Austria.
[00:40:11] Ruben Harris: Yeah.
[00:40:11] Bob Becker: And, uh, see, one of my bucket lists is Neuschwanstein Castle. Yeah, it is. So I, I am taking those calls. I do all my SMSs.
[00:40:19] Bob Becker: um, I got [00:40:20] down here a little early today due to the traffic, and I did my... I'm caught up on SMSs for the day. So I think the future is a mixture of a [00:40:30] person-
[00:40:30] Ruben Harris: Yep ...
[00:40:31] Bob Becker: whether it's a tra- great travel partner, um, someone that's part-time in the business- Mm-hmm ... all right, an outbound agent, an inbound agent, [00:40:40] coupled with a virtual agent-
[00:40:41] Ruben Harris: Yep
[00:40:42] Bob Becker: utilizing voice-
[00:40:44] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm ...
[00:40:44] Bob Becker: and SMS.
[00:40:45] Ruben Harris: Okay. So now, now, now we're gonna start talking about the future. So I, I really like- Okay ... [00:40:50] that setup because you've explained how the cruise industry went from no humans calling or travel agencies only calling to [00:41:00] a whole outbound introduction going in there, and now- Yes
[00:41:03] Ruben Harris: you're starting to touch on how it's going to evolve with humans and digital workers or AI [00:41:10] agents calling leads. Yes. Something that I wanna touch on is we've talked about booking a trip, but how about rebooking and upsells and [00:41:20] all the other things that are required to go on a cruise, like a car or a flight or, stuff like that?
[00:41:24] Bob Becker: Well, I'm glad you asked that because I think due to time-
[00:41:28] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm ...
[00:41:28] Bob Becker: you know, the day [00:41:30] is only-
[00:41:30] Ruben Harris: 24 hours ...
[00:41:30] Bob Becker: really the cruising day, it's not 24 hours though, really-
[00:41:34] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm ...
[00:41:34] Bob Becker: for an outbound agent.
[00:41:35] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:41:36] Bob Becker: The cruising day for most outbound agents is [00:41:40] 11 to about 8.
[00:41:41] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:41:42] Bob Becker: When they go home at 8:00, what happens? They, they sweat- Yep
[00:41:46] Bob Becker: 'cause they don't want that guest calling back when they're not there.
[00:41:49] Ruben Harris: Yep.
[00:41:49] Bob Becker: [00:41:50] Before 11:00, nothing really happens.
[00:41:52] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:41:52] Bob Becker: So what if you were available 24/7?
[00:41:55] Ruben Harris: There you go.
[00:41:56] Bob Becker: So you call me, you don't get [00:42:00] me.
[00:42:00] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:42:00] Bob Becker: You get a virtual assistant, and if it's a booking-
[00:42:03] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm ...
[00:42:04] Bob Becker: they'll find me.
[00:42:05] Ruben Harris: Yeah.
[00:42:05] Bob Becker: And, and any good hunter is available at any time to [00:42:10] accept a credit card. All right?
[00:42:10] Ruben Harris: Yeah. No, that, that makes sense. And so- Given the importance of the Dirt to Diamond framework for a human, do [00:42:20] you think digital workers should have quotas and goals and some type of motivation to the business?
[00:42:28] Bob Becker: Well, a virtual, a [00:42:30] virtual, the goal would be for virtual to line up a top travel professional with as many opportunities as they can.
[00:42:38] Ruben Harris: Which is the bottom of the [00:42:40] framework.
[00:42:40] Bob Becker: The bottom of the funnel.
[00:42:41] Ruben Harris: Yeah.
[00:42:41] Bob Becker: They, they need to remove all the dirt. But le- let me take it one step further, because my wife and I just got back from Bali and Bangkok.
[00:42:48] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:42:49] Bob Becker: [00:42:50] And it was a luxury cruise.
[00:42:52] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:42:53] Bob Becker: And there were 400 people on the ship.
[00:42:55] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:42:57] Bob Becker: 16 took a break [00:43:00] midway through, flew to Siem Reap, Cambodia-
[00:43:04] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm
[00:43:04] Bob Becker: to see Angkor Wat and three other temples. One was in, uh, the Tomb Raiders [00:43:10] with Angelina Jolie.
[00:43:11] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:43:11] Bob Becker: Okay? unbelievable experience. Mind-blowing.
[00:43:16] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:43:17] Bob Becker: 16 people out of 400 took it.
[00:43:19] Ruben Harris: [00:43:20] Mm-hmm.
[00:43:20] Bob Becker: It was put on by the cruise line. It was perfectly laid out. Mm-hmm. The hotel, the motor coach, the guides. [00:43:30] It was phenomenal.
[00:43:31] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:43:32] Bob Becker: Secondly, when we landed in Bangkok, and I had no idea what to expect with Bangkok, we booked a post through the cruise [00:43:40] line. 12 people booked a four-day post. Perfectly done once again. Wonderful hotel right on the river, [00:43:50] all the sights included. It was fantastic. 16 people out of 400 took it.
[00:43:56] Ruben Harris: Wow.
[00:43:57] Bob Becker: The two highlights of the [00:44:00] cruise were things you added on. Now, I developed in the first five days of the cruise, 'cause it was a two-week cruise, my drinking [00:44:10] group by the pool. So four o'clock, a bunch of guys would meet by the pool, which happens on cruises. You, you find your group. And then at 6:30, I'd have a different [00:44:20] group while my wife was getting ready before dinner.
[00:44:24] Bob Becker: I was gone for three days with my wife, and they thought that I had disembarked, that I was ill or something. [00:44:30] I said no, and I showed them pictures of Angkor Wat-
[00:44:32] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm ...
[00:44:33] Bob Becker: and the Angelina Jolie's temple with the trees growing through the rocks. They were angry.
[00:44:39] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:44:39] Bob Becker: [00:44:40] They're angry that they did not know about it.
[00:44:42] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:44:43] Bob Becker: So I mentioned to the president of the cruise line, who was very nice guy, he said, "If it was up to me, all [00:44:50] 400 would've gone to Siem Reap, and all 400 would've done at least two to three days in Bangkok."
[00:44:56] Ruben Harris: Yeah.
[00:44:57] Bob Becker: It's a two to three-day minimum city. [00:45:00]
[00:45:00] Ruben Harris: So part of the challenge was making them aware of what was going on.
[00:45:03] Bob Becker: They were not aware.
[00:45:04] Ruben Harris: They were not aware what was going on.
[00:45:05] Bob Becker: And, and you know what? You know what the, I believe email has done to the [00:45:10] world?
[00:45:10] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:45:11] Bob Becker: It's made us cease to read.
[00:45:14] Ruben Harris: Yeah.
[00:45:14] Bob Becker: Cease to read. So nobody reads an email. You glance.
[00:45:18] Ruben Harris: Yeah.
[00:45:19] Bob Becker: Nobody [00:45:20] reads a website. You glance at pretty pictures.
[00:45:23] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:45:23] Bob Becker: That's not gonna sell you.
[00:45:25] Ruben Harris: Yep.
[00:45:25] Bob Becker: So what we need to do is with digital assistants- [00:45:30]
[00:45:30] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm ...
[00:45:30] Bob Becker: make the database aware of something sexy.
[00:45:35] Ruben Harris: Yep.
[00:45:36] Bob Becker: And then with the human agents, bring the [00:45:40] sexy home to each and every prospect, past guest, future guest, and on down the line, so they have a fantastic vacation that they're gonna do again, [00:45:50] and again, and again.
[00:45:51] Bob Becker: Yeah.
[00:45:51] Jeff Herzfeld: So that's very interesting because, you know, as you said earlier, we were talking about hotels. There's obviously a difference between booking a hotel and booking a cruise because it's the experience, [00:46:00] right? And that experience along the journey, there are multiple experiences that can be booked to make the vacation that much more memorable.
[00:46:08] Jeff Herzfeld: So not only from, [00:46:10] uh, you know, dirt to diamond, but let's talk a little bit about the journey and the opportunities that are along the journey where there could be some supplementation by digital workers.
[00:46:17] Bob Becker: Well, the, the, the best thing with the [00:46:20] supplementation, but... And it can be done by digital workers, is at a hun- most cruise lines, so I'll generalize here, I apologize, most cruise lines, your final payment [00:46:30] is due at 120 days.
[00:46:31] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:46:32] Bob Becker: At 120 days, they open up the shore excursions. At 120 days, they open up dining. Now, [00:46:40] years and years ago, Norwegian Cruise Line was the first one to ever charge for dining.
[00:46:47] Ruben Harris: Mm.
[00:46:47] Bob Becker: So what people would do is they'd get [00:46:50] at the end of the buffet with a tray and see how high they could stack it. And people would literally gain 10, 15, 20 pounds on a cruise.
[00:46:57] Bob Becker: So then Norwegian said, [00:47:00] "We're gonna..." And I was at Carnival at the time.
[00:47:01] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:47:02] Bob Becker: "We're gonna charge $5 per person for a very exclusive South Beach type, [00:47:10] um, Soho type, San Francisco type Italian restaurant." And everyone in the industry said, "They're gonna die." Well, now every [00:47:20] cruise line- ... has a surcharge restaurant.
[00:47:23] Bob Becker: Here's the thing, though. They fill up. Mm-hmm. So on, um, many of them, the [00:47:30] many, many, many cruise lines have a top-of-the-line New York Chicago steakhouse.
[00:47:34] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:47:36] Bob Becker: Here's the problem. If you do not book it at 120 days out-
[00:47:39] Ruben Harris: 100% sold ...
[00:47:39] Bob Becker: [00:47:40] and you get on the ship, they're gonna say, "Well, you can eat at 5:00 or 10:30 at night."
[00:47:46] Bob Becker: I do not wanna break my vacation day. Mm-hmm. By [00:47:50] the way, my favorite time on vacation's 5:00 to 7:00 in the evening. Mm-hmm. It's just the transition between a wonderful day and a beautiful evening to come. I don't [00:48:00] wanna break that. I d- everyone, the problem is, and we've done studies on this, everyone on a cruise line wants to eat between 7:00 and 8:00.
[00:48:08] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:48:08] Bob Becker: Other than senior [00:48:10] citizens that may go to bed earlier. So if you don't do it at 120 days out, you don't get what the, what's the best, you get what's left.
[00:48:18] Ruben Harris: Yeah.
[00:48:19] Bob Becker: [00:48:20] One of the highlights any child can do, any adult also, but if you really wanna spoil your child, quinceañera, birthday, special occasion, is swimming with the [00:48:30] dolphins.
[00:48:30] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:48:31] Bob Becker: It never- I've d- been fortunate being in the business, done it five times.
[00:48:35] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:48:35] Bob Becker: Never gets old.
[00:48:36] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:48:37] Bob Becker: One of the most popular places is Dolphin [00:48:40] Cove in Ocho Rios, Jamaica. They have 550 dolphin swims per day. Wow. That's it. That's it. You had 21,000 [00:48:50] cruise passengers per day. Mm. So 550 children are very happy- Mm-hmm
[00:48:55] Bob Becker: and their parents very happy.
[00:48:57] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:48:58] Bob Becker: And the rest aren't. [00:49:00]
[00:49:00] Ruben Harris: Mm. It's a lot of people. Yeah. And so when, when you're thinking about this, this whole evolution, I think you're not just advising cruise [00:49:10] lines on how to set up outbound campaigns and how to do follow-up calls, you're also advising them on how to introduce AI agents and digital workers inside of their [00:49:20] organizations.
[00:49:20] Ruben Harris: So can you- Yes ... so for the cruise lines that are considering building versus buying these digital agents from [00:49:30] either a vendor or building it internally themselves, what are the challenges that they're gonna have to overcome as they build a digital being that can talk, for [00:49:40] example?
[00:49:40] Bob Becker: Okay. One of the-- One, I would never build.
[00:49:43] Ruben Harris: Yeah.
[00:49:43] Bob Becker: I would never build, and here's why. And this is really for cruising, but also other things. [00:49:50] One, cruise lines, um, their IT departments bust their butt- Mm-hmm ... to keep the website robust, to keep the reservation [00:50:00] system going, communications with the ship. I've been involved with probably directly or indirectly 15 cruise lines.
[00:50:08] Bob Becker: Every IT [00:50:10] department is stressed. Mm-hmm. They do not need something new on their plate.
[00:50:13] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:50:14] Bob Becker: Secondly, go with the experts. Mm-hmm. But, but here's the advice I'd give, because one of the cruise lines [00:50:20] I'm working with now, they're trying to boil the ocean. Mm-hmm. No. Pick something that provides ROI.
[00:50:29] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:50:29] Bob Becker: [00:50:30] Once you get the ROI, one item to two items. Mm-hmm. Get that working seamlessly.
[00:50:35] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:50:36] Bob Becker: Then add on to that stack.
[00:50:38] Jeff Herzfeld: Mm-hmm.
[00:50:39] Bob Becker: Then add [00:50:40] on again. Then add on again. So if you could just going into wave season- Mm-hmm ... hit that whole database with virtual agents-
[00:50:49] Jeff Herzfeld: Mm-hmm ...
[00:50:49] Bob Becker: and you'll [00:50:50] grow your revenue and fill your ships.
[00:50:51] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:50:52] Bob Becker: Then you say, "Wow, we got all these happy people." Mm-hmm. "What else can we do for them?"
[00:50:56] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:50:56] Bob Becker: Well, we can sell them some shore excursions. Mm-hmm. We [00:51:00] can book their dining.
[00:51:01] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:51:01] Bob Becker: And, and one of the things with the first time cruisers, or in the old days it was the first time cruisers, number one question, [00:51:10] frequently asked question: What do I wear to the dining room?
[00:51:13] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:51:14] Bob Becker: And that's cyclical.
[00:51:16] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:51:16] Bob Becker: It used to be even the entry-level cruise lines [00:51:20] had tuxedo night- Mm ... and suits and ties in the dining room. Now, the top luxury lines have a nice polo shirt, possibly a blue [00:51:30] blazer, um, designer jeans, but no ripped jeans. Mm-hmm. So that's an FAQ. Mm-hmm. They c- simple FAQs like that, I don't need to talk to a [00:51:40] person.
[00:51:40] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:51:40] Bob Becker: When is my final payment due? Mm-hmm. Do I need a visa, okay, for Alaska? By the way, everyone gets this wrong.
[00:51:48] Ruben Harris: Yeah.
[00:51:49] Bob Becker: Everyone gets [00:51:50] this wrong.
[00:51:50] Ruben Harris: Yeah.
[00:51:50] Bob Becker: And, and I'll give you an example. Skagway has two streets.
[00:51:56] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:51:57] Bob Becker: If you go to Skagway without [00:52:00] planning Skagway, there's the White Pass Railroad, the Red Onion Saloon, a fudge shop, and an ice cream shop.
[00:52:07] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:52:07] Bob Becker: You're back on the ship in 20 minutes.
[00:52:09] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm. [00:52:10]
[00:52:10] Bob Becker: If, however, you book a shore excursion, it'll be one of the greatest days of your life. Yeah. All right? Here's the challenge. Most of those shore [00:52:20] excursions go into Canada.
[00:52:22] Ruben Harris: Mm.
[00:52:22] Bob Becker: You need your passport.
[00:52:24] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:52:24] Bob Becker: Most people screw that up because wait, I went Seattle, round trip to [00:52:30] Seattle, and I went to Alaska, which is our last state. Most of the exciting things to do are in Canada.
[00:52:39] Ruben Harris: So [00:52:40] when you're saying they screw that up, you mean they forget to bring their passport?
[00:52:43] Bob Becker: Sure.
[00:52:43] Ruben Harris: There you go. So- Sure ... so there's a lot of repetitive, like, [00:52:50] checkbox stuff that need to be done before a trip- Totally ... to remind the guest-
[00:52:54] Bob Becker: Totally ...
[00:52:55] Ruben Harris: that has booked a trip that they need to do, or they may not have the [00:53:00] best experience that they could have. Mm-hmm. Yes. So that's an area where humans and digital workers can help as well.
[00:53:05] Jeff Herzfeld: Ex- ex- Also along the way- Exactly ... web check-in, right? All these different opportunities.
[00:53:07] Bob Becker: Everything, everything done in [00:53:10] advance, literally when you get on any cruise ship, the more you've done in advance, the quicker you can unplug and say, "I'm on [00:53:20] vacation."
[00:53:20] Ruben Harris: Yep.
[00:53:21] Jeff Herzfeld: Lead to a better experience overall.
[00:53:22] Ruben Harris: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:53:22] Ruben Harris: And when you're talking about calling these 20 million people in the database and what leads to ROI, it's not just [00:53:30] calling them all to call them all. There's like- No ... campaigns or workflows. Mm-hmm. So like that's, that's how, that's how you're talking about that?
[00:53:36] Bob Becker: So let, let me give an example. When, and you [00:53:40] love this, when you say to a prospect, "Which one of our itineraries interests you the most for your next vacation?"
[00:53:47] Bob Becker: 'Cause I'm gonna be working with you till the day you die, [00:53:50] right? Yeah. We're gonna keep doing this. Cruising has such a high. The guest satisfaction rate on cruising's in the 90 percentile.
[00:53:56] Jeff Herzfeld: Mm-hmm.
[00:53:57] Bob Becker: So where hotel stays are in the 70s. Mm-hmm. [00:54:00] They're gonna wanna cruise again. Mm-hmm. Okay? So when they say, "I'd like to go to either Hawaii or Alaska," I love that.
[00:54:08] Bob Becker: 'Cause it's [00:54:10] fire or ice.
[00:54:11] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:54:11] Bob Becker: So for this cruise, Ruben, would you and your wife like to see exploding volcanoes or beautiful white glaciers? [00:54:20] "Well, we can't decide." Well, Ruben, let me tell you how you can do both. What?
[00:54:26] Ruben Harris: I like that.
[00:54:26] Bob Becker: Okay. Let's take care of Hawaii this year, [00:54:30] 'cause you said your wife wants to be a little romantic with the volcanoes and the beautiful lush tropical beaches and snorkeling and all that.
[00:54:37] Bob Becker: While you're on board, you're gonna be having such a [00:54:40] great time. You know you're gonna wanna go again. So stop by and visit our cruise planners on board- Mm-hmm ... and they'll give you a nice discount and an [00:54:50] upgrade on your next vacation. Mm-hmm. You're a great husband, by the way.
[00:54:54] Ruben Harris: Yeah.
[00:54:54] Jeff Herzfeld: Solid. That's guest centricity, and you know what?
[00:54:57] Jeff Herzfeld: That actually reminds me, and should remind everyone, that [00:55:00] the sales cycle just doesn't stop just because they went once. So when they return from their, their voyage or their cruise, chances are they had a really good time, and they're probably on a high for at [00:55:10] least two weeks. Is that a good opportunity to call them and re-engage?
[00:55:12] Bob Becker: It's- Hmm ... so 40% of the people will rebook within the same month.
[00:55:17] Jeff Herzfeld: Wow.
[00:55:18] Ruben Harris: That's interesting.
[00:55:18] Bob Becker: So yes, so you need to [00:55:20] re-engage them. So a good outbound agent, and enforcement is obviously a problem. You know, when I left, uh, my last cruise line, I had 1,551 people working [00:55:30] for me. So y- you hope they're all McDonald's, but sometimes you get some Burger Kings in there that wanna have it their way.
[00:55:37] Bob Becker: Although now with Burger King, you're the king, so we'll see. [00:55:40] Yeah. But the, um, what we encourage them strongly to do-
[00:55:43] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm ...
[00:55:44] Bob Becker: is sustain touch calls.
[00:55:46] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:55:46] Bob Becker: Okay? uh, 120 days out, [00:55:50] call 'em up, book their shore excursions, sell them insurance if they're going far. Mm-hmm. You know, if you're a young couple going to the Caribbean, you may or may not need insurance, but if you're going [00:56:00] overseas, Europe, Asia, things happen.
[00:56:03] Bob Becker: Life happens, okay? Mm-hmm. We all have aging grandparents or parents. Sell the insurance.
[00:56:08] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:56:08] Bob Becker: Then about [00:56:10] 60 days out, somebody, somehow, if they haven't booked shore excursions or dining or insurance, need to give 'em a little nudge that that might be in their [00:56:20] best interest. One week out, we do a bon voyage call.
[00:56:24] Bob Becker: Now, it's just a nice touch. Let me say bon voyage. You don't need to get ahold [00:56:30] of 'em. So some of the best ever would do all their bon voyage calls Friday morning from 9:00 to 11:00. Mm-hmm. Why? 9:00 to 11:00 on Friday morning is the [00:56:40] least time that people were gonna pick up the phone in the old days- Mm-hmm
[00:56:43] Bob Becker: before remote.
[00:56:44] Ruben Harris: Yep.
[00:56:44] Bob Becker: Okay? Before remote. They just didn't pick up the phone. Then person goes on a [00:56:50] vacation.
[00:56:50] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:56:51] Bob Becker: You wait a week. Their luggage is back. They've given the souvenirs to the k- grandkids or the children. They're looking at some of the [00:57:00] pictures. They're really enjoying what they had. You do a welcome home call.
[00:57:04] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:57:04] Bob Becker: What did you enjoy most?
[00:57:06] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:57:06] Bob Becker: Fantastic. Let's do it again.
[00:57:09] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:57:09] Bob Becker: And we [00:57:10] just start over. Mm-hmm. So the, the luxury lines, the smaller luxury lines don't need more guests.
[00:57:18] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:57:18] Bob Becker: They need the guests [00:57:20] they have to come once more every 10 years.
[00:57:23] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:57:24] Bob Becker: Even like a Royal Caribbean, a Carnival, uh, a Norwegian, MSC, [00:57:30] if your people come twice in 10 years, just get them to come three times in 10 years.
[00:57:36] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:57:36] Bob Becker: So you don't need new people.
[00:57:38] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:57:38] Bob Becker: You need more frequency.
[00:57:39] Ruben Harris: Yeah. [00:57:40] No, I really like this concept, um, of, of touching people multiple times, making sure they have a great experience. uh, something that you brought up related to time of [00:57:50] day makes me think about compliance, actually. Mm-hmm. And so that's also something that can be done well and something that could not be done well.
[00:57:59] Ruben Harris: And so [00:58:00] as people that don't have a outbound call motion or that are thinking about doing it with humans and digital workers, how should they be thinking about compliance?
[00:58:08] Bob Becker: The thing is, [00:58:10] um, I knew in the day when I was running it, I was the compliance officer.
[00:58:14] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:58:14] Bob Becker: You know, um, lawyers, like the IT team, have enough on their plate- Mm-hmm
[00:58:19] Bob Becker: to [00:58:20] learn about these new rules, especially with the, uh, SMS rules. Mm-hmm. You know, to, to, to be honest, the do not call rules came out back in early, [00:58:30] late '99, early 2000. They've never really established good rules around email.
[00:58:36] Jeff Herzfeld: Mm-hmm.
[00:58:36] Bob Becker: Now you're onto SMS- Mm-hmm ... which really doesn't have good [00:58:40] rules yet.
[00:58:40] Jeff Herzfeld: Mm-hmm.
[00:58:41] Bob Becker: And you're going into digital.
[00:58:43] Jeff Herzfeld: Mm-hmm.
[00:58:43] Bob Becker: So one of the reasons to outsource is use your lawyers, not ours. Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, but [00:58:50] there's 50 states.
[00:58:51] Jeff Herzfeld: Yeah.
[00:58:51] Bob Becker: um, there's many countries, so, um, the England, the people in England and Australia do really well [00:59:00] on a, on a vacation with the Americans. Mm-hmm. It's just we're a lot alike.
[00:59:04] Bob Becker: We drink beer the same way. We eat the same food. We speak the same language. So problem [00:59:10] with this, England has very, very, very strict rules.
[00:59:14] Ruben Harris: uh-huh.
[00:59:14] Bob Becker: Where Australia doesn't.
[00:59:16] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[00:59:16] Bob Becker: California as a state- Mm-hmm ... has very strict rules, [00:59:20] where some of the other states have no rules.
[00:59:22] Ruben Harris: Yeah.
[00:59:23] Bob Becker: So you have to know countries and states.
[00:59:27] Ruben Harris: Yeah. All right? No, it makes a lot of sense. And, like, we [00:59:30] moved here from Silicon Valley about five years ago. I know Jeff is a, is a native, right? I am. I came as five years ago, and so a lot of my buddies, you know this, every- all the technologists [00:59:40] now are making companies that are AI agents.
[00:59:42] Bob Becker: Mm-hmm.
[00:59:43] Ruben Harris: But most of the those AI agents are doing inbound, and everybody's talking about [00:59:50] AGI, or artificial ge- general intelligence, and ASI, artificial super intelligence, which is when a digital being can essentially do the same work of humans or better than humans, [01:00:00] and they can essentially talk on the phone and use text, email, voicemail.
[01:00:04] Ruben Harris: All of that. Why is just making an-- When you, when you think about making an [01:00:10] agent inside of a company that's only inbound, a lot of times if you talk to a, a cruise line, they'll say, "Oh, we already got AI agents." [01:00:20] But are, but is it, is it, is that the same thing as what you're talking about right now?
[01:00:24] Ruben Harris: Just a digital being that can talk?
[01:00:25] Bob Becker: No, no. So one thing is they say they have inbound AI agents, right? Mm-hmm. [01:00:30] What if nobody calls you?
[01:00:31] Ruben Harris: There you go.
[01:00:33] Bob Becker: So they have AI agents on the gathering side.
[01:00:37] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[01:00:37] Bob Becker: I built my career being a hunter.
[01:00:39] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[01:00:39] Bob Becker: You [01:00:40] need AI agents on the hunting side.
[01:00:42] Ruben Harris: There you go. There you go.
[01:00:44] Ruben Harris: All right? And you also mentioned something about not just hunting randomly. Like if I'm a, [01:00:50] a, a traveler, right, I may not answer an email or I may not answer a phone call. I might answer it if I know them, but I'll probably [01:01:00] answer more if I requested it myself, like the outreach- Okay ... myself, right? So can you talk about like we call that warm outbound when somebody raises their hand- Mm-hmm
[01:01:08] Ruben Harris: saying, "Hey, I'm interested in taking a [01:01:10] cruise." So what is a welcome hunting like type of outreach?
[01:01:15] Bob Becker: Okay. So the thing is, um, anyone... I never [01:01:20] bought lists.
[01:01:20] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[01:01:21] Bob Becker: I never bought lists.
[01:01:22] Ruben Harris: There you go.
[01:01:22] Bob Becker: So the old mail houses would just buy, you know, it started back in the, uh, '60s- Mm-hmm ... to get you to subscribe to Sports [01:01:30] Illustrated by Jack Nadel from Nadel Worldwide, who be- was one of my mentors when I was younger.
[01:01:35] Bob Becker: Anyway, um, he'd buy as many lists as he could. He'd send [01:01:40] out the postcard to fill out with the rubber pencil in it. Mm-hmm. So you didn't, "I can't find a pencil." He took care of that, right?
[01:01:46] Jeff Herzfeld: Mm-hmm.
[01:01:46] Bob Becker: No, no, no, no, no. Mm-hmm. Because people [01:01:50] that are interested in cruising will raise a hand. Mm-hmm. Now, in the old days it was a phone call to a brochure request.
[01:01:57] Bob Becker: Now it's usually a website. Mm-hmm. So what you wanna do [01:02:00] on the website is get permission, which people give. Mm-hmm. They, they didn't come there to just window shop, right? No. They, they want [01:02:10] a vacation, they need a vacation, they deserve a vacation, and the, and the younger group coming up feels they deserve and are owed a vacation, right?
[01:02:19] Bob Becker: Yeah. [01:02:20] So they raise a hand. Now, if I type in Caribbean cruises right now-
[01:02:26] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm ...
[01:02:27] Bob Becker: I'm gonna get every major cruise [01:02:30] line.
[01:02:30] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[01:02:30] Bob Becker: I'm gonna get some of the top-selling travel agencies. I may get on a tourism board for Aruba.
[01:02:37] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[01:02:38] Bob Becker: So I'm confused. [01:02:40]
[01:02:40] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[01:02:40] Bob Becker: What happens to confused people? Once again, go back to selling the invisible.
[01:02:45] Bob Becker: Confused people do not buy.
[01:02:47] Ruben Harris: Yep.
[01:02:48] Bob Becker: Okay? So [01:02:50] people do not have to make the best choice.
[01:02:52] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[01:02:53] Bob Becker: But they are deathly afraid of making the worst choice.
[01:02:56] Ruben Harris: Yep.
[01:02:57] Bob Becker: So they take the safest choice. [01:03:00] Let's go back 15, 18 years ago. The safest choice of a car to buy your college graduate was a Toyota.
[01:03:08] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
[01:03:09] Bob Becker: Was [01:03:10] a Toyota Camry the best choice? I don't know. Was it the worst choice? I don't... But it was a good choice.
[01:03:15] Ruben Harris: It was the safe choice.
[01:03:16] Bob Becker: Safe choice.
[01:03:16] Ruben Harris: Can't go wrong.
[01:03:17] Bob Becker: Okay? Can't go wrong. When you go out to a new [01:03:20] restaurant, safest choice is probably the cheeseburger.
[01:03:23] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[01:03:23] Bob Becker: Nobody's gonna screw up a cheeseburger.
[01:03:25] Bob Becker: You're thinking of the baby back ribs, but are they really falling right off the [01:03:30] bone? You don't know.
[01:03:31] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[01:03:31] Bob Becker: So you go with the safest choice. Now, what happens is the virtual agent tees up- Mm-hmm ... the [01:03:40] human agent.
[01:03:40] Ruben Harris: Yeah.
[01:03:40] Bob Becker: And the human person gets in there and finds the real objection. Mm-hmm. Nobody is ever gonna tell you the real objection.
[01:03:49] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[01:03:49] Bob Becker: You gotta [01:03:50] dig for it.
[01:03:50] Ruben Harris: Yep.
[01:03:51] Bob Becker: "Oh, oh, well, really, it's my husband thinks he's gonna be bored."
[01:03:54] Ruben Harris: Yeah.
[01:03:55] Bob Becker: "Well, I'm glad you mentioned that." Yeah. "Because the only problem your [01:04:00] husband's gonna have on this ship is deciding what great activity to do next. And by the way, Jenny, just so you know-" Men are the [01:04:10] most reluctant to take the first cruise, but they're the first to book the second.
[01:04:14] Ruben Harris: That is-
[01:04:15] Jeff Herzfeld: That is true.
[01:04:15] Bob Becker: "What does your husband like to do on vacation?" "Well, he likes to golf." [01:04:20] "Well, let me take a look. On this itinerary, you're gonna see three top golf courses."
[01:04:25] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[01:04:26] Bob Becker: Boom.
[01:04:26] Ruben Harris: Yeah.
[01:04:27] Jeff Herzfeld: So we gotta really know your guests, and it's really just asking the right [01:04:30] questions.
[01:04:30] Bob Becker: Yeah. The guests will tell you, you are there to help them have a great vacation, and they will tell you exactly [01:04:40] if you ask.
[01:04:41] Jeff Herzfeld: So Bob, I've, I've recalled that you were specifically called out on two earnings calls by Mickey Arison. Tell me [01:04:50] a little bit about that.
[01:04:51] Bob Becker: Yeah, that, that was qu- qu- quite different for me, to be honest with you. um, first of all, any time you can be called out by, uh, someone [01:05:00] as pioneering as either Ted Arison, the dad, or Mickey, who continued to build the legacy.
[01:05:06] Bob Becker: They built a cruise enterprise and 100 [01:05:10] pers- 100% respect for the Arison family and everything they built. um, what happened is I built up a, a kingdom there, [01:05:20] um, of outbound agents, and then I moved on when the private equity company came in, came into Norwegian Cruise Line. I actually came into Norwegian through the private equity [01:05:30] company, and I, I left the Arisons.
[01:05:33] Bob Becker: um, but nothing but fond memories for the people at Carnival, the great products they had. uh, my mentors [01:05:40] there, Bob and Vicki, outstanding people. But to be called out, it was a little, first embarrassing, and then people said, "No, this is a good thing." So a [01:05:50] compliment from Mr. Arison is great, and I, I hold that dear to my heart.
[01:05:54] Ruben Harris: Yeah, and, and it says a lot about the framework that you introduced and that it works 'cause a lot of times people don't [01:06:00] understand that the power of introducing these types of capabilities. I like the earnings call story because when you're a public company, you [01:06:10] have these, like, quarterly reports, and for a lot of people, they, when you think about performance management, they're looking at reports after the fact, and then when the report comes out, they'll make [01:06:20] adjustments.
[01:06:20] Bob Becker: Mm-hmm.
[01:06:20] Ruben Harris: But can you talk about the importance of adjusting before the earnings call so that the earnings call is actually what you want it to be [01:06:30] versus having to wait to see how your performance is, you see the earnings call, and then you adjust?
[01:06:36] Bob Becker: Well, if you have the, the right sales team, you don't need to worry [01:06:40] about the earnings calls.
[01:06:41] Ruben Harris: There you go.
[01:06:41] Bob Becker: That's the key.
[01:06:42] Ruben Harris: Yeah.
[01:06:42] Bob Becker: I believe in offense. I'm a Buffalo Bills fan. We got Josh Allen.
[01:06:46] Ruben Harris: There you go. There you go.
[01:06:46] Bob Becker: I believe in offense versus defense. Mm-hmm. [01:06:50] Because if you do it offensively, you control it.
[01:06:53] Ruben Harris: Yeah.
[01:06:54] Bob Becker: If you do it defensively, it's reactionary-
[01:06:57] Ruben Harris: There you go.
[01:06:57] Bob Becker: ... to what someone else did.
[01:06:58] Ruben Harris: Yep.
[01:06:59] Bob Becker: Okay? [01:07:00] So, so that's the key right there. Now, the good thing about what, uh, Mr. Arison and his team, Bob and Vicki did for me, when you're the pioneer of something, you start [01:07:10] it, you can make a lot of mistakes.
[01:07:12] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[01:07:13] Bob Becker: And with both Ed Rudner and Bob Dickinson and Vicki, there was no mistake. It was what did you learn [01:07:20] from that?
[01:07:20] Bob Becker: Now they let you cry for a couple days, and there's other mistakes I've made that I didn't actually put in my status report.
[01:07:26] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[01:07:27] Bob Becker: We tried things on board, tried [01:07:30] things with different sales approaches that didn't work, and then we went on to something else.
[01:07:34] Ruben Harris: Yeah.
[01:07:34] Bob Becker: Okay?
[01:07:35] Ruben Harris: And bef- and before we go into the rapid-fire round, what would you say [01:07:40] is not normal today that you think is gonna be normal in the future in the cruise industry?
[01:07:47] Bob Becker: Definitely more self-serve.
[01:07:49] Ruben Harris: [01:07:50] Mm-hmm.
[01:07:50] Bob Becker: Definitely more self-serve. And even with our life now, I'm, I'm blessed- Mm-hmm ... with five grandkids and more on the way. Mm-hmm. So I'm blessed. Congrats. Congrats. My, my [01:08:00] wife's on downtime, and she is our vacation planner, and she's really good at it, is 9:00 to 11:00 at night.
[01:08:07] Jeff Herzfeld: Mm-hmm.
[01:08:07] Bob Becker: Well, the problem is if she's dealing [01:08:10] with a human being, 9:00 to 11:00 at night when she's relaxing on the couch with her laptop may not be readily available.
[01:08:17] Ruben Harris: Yep.
[01:08:17] Bob Becker: But if she leaves a message and they [01:08:20] call back at 3:00, she's picking up three of the kids from school- Mm-hmm ... dropping them at soccer, taking another one to swimming lessons, preparing [01:08:30] dinner, doing the lunches.
[01:08:31] Bob Becker: So you need to be available-
[01:08:35] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm ...
[01:08:35] Bob Becker: 24/7.
[01:08:37] Ruben Harris: Yeah.
[01:08:37] Bob Becker: Really available, and [01:08:40] websites aren't getting that done. Mm-hmm. Okay? Now, if I knew, let's say my wife forgot to get me an aisle seat.
[01:08:48] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[01:08:48] Bob Becker: I am not [01:08:50] getting on a plane without an aisle seat.
[01:08:52] Ruben Harris: Yeah.
[01:08:52] Bob Becker: She could call in at midnight and leave a message or talk to a virtual agent and say, "Look, you need to get a message [01:09:00] to my personal vacation planner, 8:00 AM-
[01:09:03] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[01:09:03] Bob Becker: that Bob needs an aisle seat or we're not going."
[01:09:05] Ruben Harris: Yep.
[01:09:06] Bob Becker: Virtual agent could respond, "Yes, Donna, I'm happy to take [01:09:10] care of that. um, would you like the front or the back of the plane?" And I like wing forward, so wing forward. So then when my agent, let's say [01:09:20] it's Jeff, calls me in the morning, they've already done the work.
[01:09:23] Bob Becker: "Well, Donna, you'll be happy to know we got Bob his favorite seat, 12D-
[01:09:27] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm ...
[01:09:28] Bob Becker: right over the wing, [01:09:30] exit row." Mm-hmm. And I'm happy, Donna's happy, and I'm gonna do it again and again and again.
[01:09:36] Ruben Harris: Awesome.
[01:09:36] Bob Becker: To, to takes the stress out of vacation. [01:09:40] You, you know, we work 50, 50 weeks a year to vacation too.
[01:09:45] Bob Becker: Let's not screw it up for the guests.
[01:09:47] Ruben Harris: Yeah. No, I think that's great. Right? And I think, uh, to, [01:09:50] to your point as we go into the rapid-fire round, I think the future is brands that can build these long-term relationships with people. It's not just people that have [01:10:00] loyalty from a purchase perspective, but people that can always check in on you, see what's going on- Mm-hmm
[01:10:04] Ruben Harris: whether it's humans or agents.
[01:10:05] Jeff Herzfeld: And before we get into the rapid fire, you know, I, this, this question actually just has been burning in [01:10:10] my mind. Bob, you know, you can walk into any cruise line or travel industry sales center, and [01:10:20] every time I go into one of these places, and I've worked at, you know, three, four cruise lines, there's always people from the Bob Becker Dirt to Diamond school.
[01:10:28] Jeff Herzfeld: How does that make you feel knowing that, [01:10:30] uh-
[01:10:30] Bob Becker: Ma- makes me feel pretty good. Mm-hmm. um, probably rivaling Bob Dickinson and, um, maybe Richard Fain of the old World Days with as many VPs as I've [01:10:40] got. Mm-hmm. uh, my VPs though came off the phone-
[01:10:43] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm ...
[01:10:43] Bob Becker: and there's 25 to 30 of them. I've got a chief sales officer, two [01:10:50] SVPs, and about 25 VPs.
[01:10:52] Bob Becker: Makes me feel good. And now they work very, very hard to get where they are, and they're a very special group of people. [01:11:00]
[01:11:00] Ruben Harris: I think that's one of the best feelings, I think, like when you've accomplished a lot of what you've done and then you wanna ... You see people that look like you, you or like [01:11:10] remind you of yourself, and you pour into them, and then they listen to your advice, and they become just as good if...
[01:11:16] Ruben Harris: At least when I'm teaching people, I want them to be better than me- Mm-hmm ... and then you see them [01:11:20] shine. That's almost like, obviously I don't have kids or grandkids yet, but it almost kind of feels like that, right? It's watching the- your, the people that you raised-
[01:11:28] Jeff Herzfeld: Oh, yes. Successful story.
[01:11:29] Ruben Harris: Right? Yeah. So.
[01:11:30] Bob Becker: It is. It's great.
[01:11:31] Ruben Harris: Awesome. At this point in the show, we go into the rapid-fire round. We're gonna ask you a bunch of questions where you just give one-liner answers or it's okay if you [01:11:40] ramble, but essentially they're, they're just to get a little insight about who you are as a person.
[01:11:43] Bob Becker: Okay. I love Jeopardy!
[01:11:44] Bob Becker: Can I get a clicker?
[01:11:46] Ruben Harris: That'd be cool. We should do that. But Jeff, why don't you ask the first one?
[01:11:49] Jeff Herzfeld: Yeah, of course. Bob, [01:11:50] what was your first job?
[01:11:51] Bob Becker: uh, first job, I, I'll be honest, I always hustled for money 'cause my parents didn't have any.
[01:11:56] Ruben Harris: uh-huh.
[01:11:56] Bob Becker: I was a paperboy. I shoveled snow. First [01:12:00] job above the table, I was a dishwasher in a restaurant.
[01:12:02] Ruben Harris: I love that. I love that. I love that. uh, you talked about Buffalo earlier, and you've talked to us about what your [01:12:10] favorite food is, but for the people that don't know, what's your favorite food?
[01:12:13] Bob Becker: Okay. Everyone's gonna guess- ... Buffalo chicken wings, but it's not. It's beef on [01:12:20] kummelweck.
[01:12:21] Ruben Harris: Okay.
[01:12:21] Bob Becker: uh, you'll only find it in Buffalo.
[01:12:23] Bob Becker: um, there's a restaurant called Bar Bill-
[01:12:26] Jeff Herzfeld: Mm-hmm ...
[01:12:26] Bob Becker: that a beef on weck is... If you go [01:12:30] to Buffalo for a Bills game, um, hopefully you're rooting for the Bills. If not, you'll be on the losing end. Get a beef on weck.
[01:12:38] Jeff Herzfeld: Bob, what's the best sales call you've ever [01:12:40] heard?
[01:12:41] Bob Becker: Well, there's, that's a great question. Here's the deal.
[01:12:44] Bob Becker: I have heard many perfect calls where they followed my 555 Dirt to [01:12:50] Diamonds sales process. But probably the neatest call I've ever heard was by a guy named Chris B., uh, who did everything [01:13:00] wrong. He was terrible. He didn't qualify. He was all over the place. He asked, uh, the young lady, her name was Patricia-
[01:13:09] Ruben Harris: [01:13:10] Mm-hmm
[01:13:10] Bob Becker: had she cruised before, and she said yes. He said, "What did you enjoy most?" He was good up to that point. She said, "It rained every day." And he goes, "Well, we won't let that happen [01:13:20] to you." And then he got totally off script. He was terrible. She gave him nine noes.
[01:13:25] Ruben Harris: Wow.
[01:13:25] Bob Becker: Now, a no is never a no. Mm-hmm. A no is, "I need to think about it.
[01:13:29] Bob Becker: [01:13:30] I need to talk to my husband. I'm not sure. uh, let me get back to you Friday." He gets nine noes. He's going nowhere. And he says, [01:13:40] "Is it Patrice or Patricia?" She goes, "Patricia." You can hear him hitting the keyboard. He's making the booking. "And your husband's name and your credit [01:13:50] card." And she gave it right to him.
[01:13:51] Ruben Harris: Wow.
[01:13:52] Bob Becker: She calls back five minutes later, "You didn't tell me where I'm going." That's a sales call.
[01:13:58] Jeff Herzfeld: So I recall [01:14:00] Chris B., and that was totally assuming the sale, and I remember that, and I've used that quite a few times and it worked because they started giving you- Yep ... all the information.
[01:14:05] Bob Becker: You can do everything wrong and ask for the credit card and get it.
[01:14:09] Bob Becker: You [01:14:10] can do everything right and not ask for the credit card and you won't get it.
[01:14:14] Ruben Harris: So interesting. um, related to that, you've talked to us about people, product, [01:14:20] process.
[01:14:20] Bob Becker: Yes.
[01:14:21] Ruben Harris: Can you unpack that? 'Cause, like, some of that is related to process.
[01:14:24] Bob Becker: 100%. I think I did pretty good in my career and I built my [01:14:30] career by taking care of the people that technically title-wise were below me.
[01:14:35] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[01:14:35] Bob Becker: And if you raise the people on your team up, [01:14:40] obviously you're rising up.
[01:14:41] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[01:14:41] Bob Becker: Now, if you kiss butt up, you're kissing butt up and leaving your people behind. Mm-hmm. So I'd rather have my people [01:14:50] push me up than grab a rope and try to climb up.
[01:14:53] Ruben Harris: Yeah. And, and-
[01:14:54] Bob Becker: People first.
[01:14:55] Ruben Harris: People first.
[01:14:56] Bob Becker: Always.
[01:14:56] Ruben Harris: And, um, obviously we, this whole Dirt to Diamonds framework is a [01:15:00] process that's not just applicable to the cruise industry, but for many industries.
[01:15:04] Ruben Harris: So do, do other industries call you?
[01:15:06] Bob Becker: No, I have been called by probably every insurance company in the [01:15:10] united States. The problem is if I was doing financial services going to insurance, I'd do it in a minute. Mm-hmm. But my wife and I and my family love [01:15:20] cruising. Mm-hmm. So it's pretty tough to bring someone out of cruising.
[01:15:22] Bob Becker: Now, the industry that really needs this-
[01:15:26] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm ...
[01:15:26] Bob Becker: if you think about it, I've raised five kids, my wife and I, my [01:15:30] parents, her parents. I influence a lot of car decisions. Do you know I've never bought a vehicle off the same person [01:15:40] twice?
[01:15:40] Ruben Harris: Hmm. That's interesting.
[01:15:41] Bob Becker: They've never stayed in touch with me. Hmm.
[01:15:42] Bob Becker: Now, we switch cars about every three years- Mm-hmm ... or 50,000 miles. Nobody's in touch with me.
[01:15:49] Ruben Harris: Hmm. [01:15:50] Hmm. Sounds like an opportunity.
[01:15:52] Jeff Herzfeld: Yeah, 100%.
[01:15:53] Ruben Harris: So Jeff, you wanna ask the last question?
[01:15:54] Jeff Herzfeld: Yeah. um, one word for the cruise industry in the next three [01:16:00] years. How would you describe it?
[01:16:03] Bob Becker: Adopt change.
[01:16:05] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[01:16:05] Bob Becker: And this change, this change is coming quickly.
[01:16:09] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm. [01:16:10]
[01:16:10] Bob Becker: unlike, you know, the, the laptop, the cellphone-
[01:16:14] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm ...
[01:16:15] Bob Becker: CRM-
[01:16:16] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm ...
[01:16:16] Bob Becker: took years and years and years to develop, [01:16:20] AI really came on about two, two and a half years ago. It is getting better not every month, not every week, not every day. It's getting better [01:16:30] every hour.
[01:16:31] Ruben Harris: Yeah.
[01:16:31] Bob Becker: Now, think about it. The ships are getting better every day, too.
[01:16:35] Ruben Harris: Yeah.
[01:16:36] Bob Becker: So let's use the same [01:16:40] methodology, thought process. Every ship now is better than the Titanic.
[01:16:44] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[01:16:44] Bob Becker: Okay? No pun intended.
[01:16:46] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[01:16:47] Bob Becker: The virtual agents, the digital agents [01:16:50] working with the human agent are gonna fill those big and beautiful ships.
[01:16:54] Ruben Harris: Yeah.
[01:16:55] Jeff Herzfeld: Sounds like there's definitely an opportunity to sell smarter.
[01:16:57] Ruben Harris: Yeah. Yes. I mean, and like you said, uh, [01:17:00] and I, I really wanna drive this point home, there's enough for everybody to eat.
[01:17:05] Bob Becker: There's ... The, the challenge is there's gonna be too much for [01:17:10] everybody to eat. So the travel partners, there's ... When, when I started in this business back in '89- Mm-hmm ... so if you weren't born, I'm not happy about that, [01:17:20] there were over 50 travel schools in the united States.
[01:17:23] Bob Becker: And kids that didn't wanna go to college were going to travel schools. You know how many there are now? I did not know that. None.
[01:17:29] Ruben Harris: That's interesting.
[01:17:29] Bob Becker: [01:17:30] There's none. So there are some new entrants that will do well-
[01:17:34] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm ...
[01:17:34] Bob Becker: but there's not enough. Yeah. There's many, many, many great ships, and they're bigger.
[01:17:39] Bob Becker: [01:17:40] You know, the new, the newest ships can hold 6,500 guests.
[01:17:44] Ruben Harris: Wow.
[01:17:44] Bob Becker: Okay? Wow. And they're, and they're just getting bigger. So we need more [01:17:50] travel agent salespeople, uh, more online bookings, more human salespeople, digital people to line up both the travel [01:18:00] partners, the inbound agents, and the outbound agents. Plus, what we don't have time to talk about is the onboard experience.
[01:18:07] Bob Becker: There are so many [01:18:10] different things to do. One of the, the largest ships afloat right now has 40 dining options.
[01:18:16] Ruben Harris: Wow. Wow.
[01:18:16] Bob Becker: I'm only on for seven days. How do I know [01:18:20] which ones to do?
[01:18:21] Ruben Harris: Yeah. Yeah.
[01:18:22] Bob Becker: I, I would love someone pick up a phone and say, "I'm in the mood for, uh, a little lunch today. What do you got?"
[01:18:28] Ruben Harris: Yeah.
[01:18:28] Bob Becker: "Well, what are you in the mood for? You got any [01:18:30] ribs?" Mm-hmm. "Sure, Mr. Becker."
[01:18:31] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[01:18:32] Bob Becker: "Go down on this. Would you like me to make a reservation for you?" "Sure, I'd like one." I don't need a person to do that.
[01:18:38] Ruben Harris: Yeah. Well, [01:18:40] we, we really appreciate you sharing about the change that has happened historically, right? Okay.
[01:18:45] Ruben Harris: With, you know, travel agencies, brochures, internet, to [01:18:50] where we believe is going with agents, um, after it's evolved from websites and apps and so on and so forth. um, I think if I was gonna add a word to answer Jeff's question, I would [01:19:00] say faster, right? So- Yes ... the change historically happened over time. To your point, now with AI, this change is happening every hour, every [01:19:10] second.
[01:19:10] Ruben Harris: New models are breaking through. And so for the cruise lines and the travel companies that decide to adopt this change, they're gonna be, um, positioned [01:19:20] better to serve their customers. So...
[01:19:22] Bob Becker: So had, had Jeff called me a year ago, I would've been busy.
[01:19:27] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[01:19:27] Bob Becker: I would've said, "Not interested."
[01:19:28] Ruben Harris: Mm-hmm.
[01:19:29] Bob Becker: And then when [01:19:30] Jeff played the demonstration that you used for the first cruise line you guys really signed on- Mm
[01:19:35] Bob Becker: I said, "Oh my God." Mm-hmm. "This is really gonna be something [01:19:40] special."
[01:19:40] Ruben Harris: So like, like you guys heard, Bob has given a breakdown of not just the history of the cruise industry, but the future, and this is the new normal.
[01:19:49] Jeff Herzfeld: Yeah. And [01:19:50] Bob, I really wanted to thank you for coming in today, but also I wanted to thank you for introducing me to this industry that I fell in love with 20 years ago.
[01:19:57] Jeff Herzfeld: You gave me a shot, and if it wasn't for you, I wouldn't be sitting [01:20:00] at this table right now.
[01:20:00] Bob Becker: And I'm proud of where you've become.
[01:20:02] Jeff Herzfeld: Oh, thank you very much.
[01:20:03] Bob Becker: So great job, Jeff.
[01:20:03] Jeff Herzfeld: Appreciate it, Bob.
[01:20:03] Bob Becker: Proud of you.
[01:20:04] Jeff Herzfeld: Thank you.
[01:20:04] Ruben Harris: Love it. Okay.
Bob Becker, known as the King of Outbound, is the former EVP of Consumer Research, Sales and Customer Care at Carnival Cruise Line, Norwegian Cruise Line and Celebrity Cruises. Over a career that began in 1989 he has been responsible for more than $50 billion in sales, and he is the creator and personal trademark holder of the Dirt to Diamonds sales methodology. He was mentored by Ed Rudner, Bob Dickinson and Vicki Freed, and was called out by Micky Arison on two Carnival earnings calls.
Today he consults for major travel brands on building outbound teams and implementing AI. A Buffalo native, he is a Bills fan and a Budweiser man.
Bob Becker spent his career filling cruise ships by phone. As the former EVP of Consumer Research, Sales and Customer Care at Carnival Cruise Line, Norwegian Cruise Line and Celebrity Cruises, he pioneered outbound direct sales in the industry, was responsible for more than $50 billion in sales, and created the Dirt to Diamonds methodology that every cruise line now runs. When he left his last cruise line, 1,551 people reported to him. Ruben Harris and co-host Jeff Herzfeld, OutRival's Head of Travel, sit down with Bob in Miami. Bob gave Jeff his start in the cruise industry 20 years ago.
Bob walks through how ships were filled before anyone picked up a phone, the death threats he received when he first called consumers direct, and the ten minute meeting where he told Bob Dickinson that Carnival's marketing team stinks and got 90 days to prove outbound could work. He whiteboards the math that made outbound inevitable: 43,000 full service travel agencies in 1995, fewer than 10,000 today, zero travel schools left in the country, and ships that hold 6,500 guests. He explains the 150 dials a day that become 30 real opportunities, hunters versus gatherers, and why wave season moved two weeks earlier. On AI, his position is direct: 80 percent of a salesperson's time is moving dirt, digital agents should move it, and the industry needs AI on the hunting side, not just waiting for the phone to ring. His advice to cruise lines: never build it yourself, pick one thing that produces ROI, get it working, then add to the stack.
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